Posts by Five Gospels

92

How many hours are falsely reported?

by badboy in

jw
friends

in the january 1 issue of each year, they harp on about how many hours the jws did last year etc etc.. how many hours are possibly falsely reported?.

discuss,please

Five Gospels

Leander said:

I could be wrong about this but lately I've been thinking that the reason the WTBS is so insistent on every JW being involved in the preaching work is so that they can force a prophecy into fulfilment.

You are exactly right! Have you ever noticed how they take Matt. 28:19 and 20 and call it a prophecy being fulfilled today by Jehovah's Witnesses at one moment and then call it a commission the next when they are trying to compel everyone to be involved in the preaching work! Which is it! Well, whatever it is, I'm sure Jesus didn't have in mind the false gospel being carried out by JWs today.

F G

16

WTS v. Stratton

by Marvin Shilmer in

jw
friends

february 2002 issue of the american lawyer .

supreme advocacy: church of free speech, by tony mauro.

god doesn't have an interest in that.

Five Gospels

Just a little 'FYI' on the no trespassing thing...

The latest "direction from the Society" on this matter is that witnesses are to avoid homes having "Posted - No Trespassing" signs. Although I haven’t seen anything in writing yet (Wt mags.) this is the instruction being propagated through the congregation elders since roughly Fall 2001.

Five Gospels

20

did jesus really exist??

by master chief in

jw
friends

i wonder if jesus did exist?i just wanted to know if having faith that he did is enough,i mean i like to have you know concrete proof about things and there isnt much proof he existed except that in the bible,maybe he was just another wannabe prophet,just think what people believe in today like faith healers they supposedly have healing powers,believers claim to be healed then later resume back to there normal condition etc etc.

is it all in there mind and they want it to be real they believe it so much that they think there cured even though there not you see wat im getting at people might of thought about jesus the same way like maybe looking for a hope in this healer or prophet and then claiming to be better because they were maybe over emotional about jesus.

Five Gospels

Rem,

I have not found any evidence to substantiate the Bible's claim that Jesus existed. I'm curious to hear what evidence you have found that supports this claim.

Since I'm a "newbie" and hence little is known about my viewpoints, let me start by saying that I am not attempting to debate or prove any spiritual aspects of Jesus. I also realize that there is limited historical evidence to establish Jesus' existence, and I don't believe in the inerrancy of the Bible.

This is simply a reply to your post asking me to provide some evidence that I have found supportive of the claim that Jesus was a historical person.

These are: the Writings of Cornelius Tacitus, Gaius Suetonius Tranquillas (Roman historians), Flavius Josephus (Jewish historian), Thallus, two references made to a report on the crucifixion by Pontius Pilate from Justin Martyr and Tetullian, refernces in the Talmud, and Caiaphas' burial cave (excavated in 1990). These establish historic evidence that a man named Jesus lived, died, and was later deified in a time and a place described in the New Testament.

Also, there are many scholarly works that others have provided links to.

I find this evidence compelling enough to believe that a historical figure (named Jesus) existed and that this figure seems to correspond to the Jesus characterized in the New Testament... it may or may not be compelling enough for you.

FG

26

gay cartoon characters

by gilwarrior in

has anyone ever spotted a gay cartoon character?

i firmly believe that peppermint patty in the "peanuts" cartoons was gay.

she was pretty much a tomboy and did you ever notice that patty's friend marcy always called her "sir" even though patty was a girl?

Five Gospels

The "ambiguously gay duo" as seen on Saturday Night Live.

20

did jesus really exist??

by master chief in

jw
friends

i wonder if jesus did exist?i just wanted to know if having faith that he did is enough,i mean i like to have you know concrete proof about things and there isnt much proof he existed except that in the bible,maybe he was just another wannabe prophet,just think what people believe in today like faith healers they supposedly have healing powers,believers claim to be healed then later resume back to there normal condition etc etc.

is it all in there mind and they want it to be real they believe it so much that they think there cured even though there not you see wat im getting at people might of thought about jesus the same way like maybe looking for a hope in this healer or prophet and then claiming to be better because they were maybe over emotional about jesus.

Five Gospels

What do you mean by "exist?" Are you asking whether a man named Jesus of Nazareth walked the earth roughly two millennia ago and sparked a religious movement that later became known as Christianity, or are you wondering whether Jesus (God) or Jesus (the only begotten son - a created divine being) was real?

The former seems to be well substantiated (even from non-Biblical sources) while the latter is subject to many different interpretations and much debate.

I am convinced that he was a historical person and I can't ignore the possibility that he was a special messenger for God. However, I often find myself asking this question: who created the Christian Jesus (as characterized by Christianity)... God or man?

FG

1

Writing a letter - looking for address

by Five Gospels in

jw
friends

i would like to write the society about its un/dpi association.

(realizing that i will most likely get a form letter response.).

i was wondering which address most people here have found useful for this purpose.

Five Gospels

I would like to write the Society about its UN/DPI association. (Realizing that I will most likely get a form letter response.)

I was wondering which address most people here have found useful for this purpose. Also, has anyone <b>not</b> received a reply regarding this issue? Should I send my letter via registered mail? (So they can't claim they never got it.)

Your feedback is greatly appreciated.

FG

19

No Change in 1991 - Library Card

by Lionel_P_Hartley in

i received the folowing two emails from dana loytved who is senior reference librarian at the un library in nyc.. in view of her first reply i asked her what procedure the wts used to access the library before 1991. her second reply is a bit cryptic but she states with confidence that there were no changes in procedure.

i don't want to pester these kind folks any more.. .

the procedure for a library pass is the following: the interested party needs to fill out an application form and supply a letter of recommendation in support of the research.

Five Gospels

Let's focus on the meat of the matter:

Our purpose in registering with the Department of Public Information as a nongovernmental organization (NGO) in 1991 was to have access to research material available on health, ecological and social problems [...]

I don't think the rest matters that much. First, since "All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work" (1 Tim. 3:16,17 RSV) no additional "research material" is necessary in order to fulfill Christ's commission to feed His sheep. The scriptures alone are sufficient. Second, by their own teachings, it is wrong for a Christian to become associated in any way with false religion, (any religion but theirs) or any political entities, especially that "abomination to God" that is the United Nations. Any JW that shows any support for such things is, by his or her own actions, disassociated from the "worldwide Christian Organization." I don't think it can be argued that association with the PDI was not support. The DPI itself refers to its associate NGO's as partners and it can be demonstrated beyond a reasonable doubt that the WTS upheld its end of the partnership. They may claim "theocratic war strategy" and insist that they had their "fingers crossed" the whole time, but accessing information for books or magazines is not crucial to people's spiritual welfare, i.e. the end does not justify the means.

Thus any justification is a lie unless (1) it can be demonstrated that God required them to access research materials available only at the UN library (I hope this doesn't giv'em any ideas), (2) they concede that the scriptures alone are insufficient to properly educate the man (or woman) of God that he (or she) may be complete, equipped for every good work and that research material available only at the UN library was necessary to complement the scriptures, (3) they reveal "new light," i.e. now its ok to be associated with political entities as long as it's for "research." But even these justifications would be just that, justifications, and with the exception of (1) their actions would still be wrong in the minds of most believers.

Just in case there is still any doubt, the true "litmus test" as to the wrongness of the actions of the WTS on this matter is to observe the reaction of a typical JW (not ex-members, but the sincere, albeit misled, member) upon learning about the Society's former association. "That information cannot be correct!" or, "its a fabrication of apostates!" It most definitely offends their sensibilities and their initial reactions speak volumes.

F G

8

Was DPI assoc. even adequate for library access?

by Five Gospels in

ive been reading many of the un threads with interest but i am already finding it difficult to locate little tidbits of information spread across the numerous threads on this issue that i didnt bother to bookmark.

i think its already well established that the wt societys associative status with the uns dpi was not required to gain access to its library (as my understand is that any person can request permission and may thereafter be granted access on a temporary basis) but i also seem to recall reading that somebody actually contacted the uns main library and that person was informed that ngos with dpi-associative status do not have automatic access to the librarys materials but must still request a pass or card which also requires some type of formal application.

could somebody please confirm this and/or direct me to the relevant thread?.

Five Gospels

Thanks for the clarification. This is helpful.

8

Was DPI assoc. even adequate for library access?

by Five Gospels in

ive been reading many of the un threads with interest but i am already finding it difficult to locate little tidbits of information spread across the numerous threads on this issue that i didnt bother to bookmark.

i think its already well established that the wt societys associative status with the uns dpi was not required to gain access to its library (as my understand is that any person can request permission and may thereafter be granted access on a temporary basis) but i also seem to recall reading that somebody actually contacted the uns main library and that person was informed that ngos with dpi-associative status do not have automatic access to the librarys materials but must still request a pass or card which also requires some type of formal application.

could somebody please confirm this and/or direct me to the relevant thread?.

Five Gospels

Thanks for your help everybody. I think I found what I was looking for. William Penwell referenced it in Lionel_P_Hartley's Library Card Defense - All aspects thread. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=19130&site=3

The actual information that I was thinking of is in the form of a letter from Dana Loytved, the Senior Reference Librarian at the United Nations Library in New York, written in response to someone's query. It says in part:

The procedure for a library pass is the following: the interested party needs to fill out an application form and supply a letter of recommendation in support of the research. [...] UN Security checks the application and, if approval is granted, instructs the Pass Office to issue a library pass for the applicant.
The issuance of a library pass is independent of NGO status or any other status. There has been no change in the library pass policy in general ...

(Bold lettering is mine) The entire letter is available online at http://www.thetruthhurts.freeservers.com/librarycard.htm

Now I think this is very interesting. I'm not trying to split hairs as I fully agree with what avengers said in that "it really doesn't matter for what reason it might be for joining the UN." However, whenever the Society is confronted on this issue, they may state that while [Admittedly] DPI association is not necessary for access to the UN's library, DPI association is sufficient. My contention (and I may be misunderstanding this letter) is that DPI association is neither necessary nor sufficient by itself to secure a pass to the library. One must always submit an application regardless of there "status" so very little is gained by being associated with the DPI. If my interpretation of this letter is correct, then their "library card excuse" is all the more tenuous.

JosephAlward, you stated that

After DPI affiliation is obtained, all that is necessary is to submit evidence of the affiliation to the library, and a grounds pass is issued.

So it is your understanding that an NGO does not need to fill out an application and be cleared by UN security if they are associated with DPI. Do you know this for a fact?

8

Was DPI assoc. even adequate for library access?

by Five Gospels in

ive been reading many of the un threads with interest but i am already finding it difficult to locate little tidbits of information spread across the numerous threads on this issue that i didnt bother to bookmark.

i think its already well established that the wt societys associative status with the uns dpi was not required to gain access to its library (as my understand is that any person can request permission and may thereafter be granted access on a temporary basis) but i also seem to recall reading that somebody actually contacted the uns main library and that person was informed that ngos with dpi-associative status do not have automatic access to the librarys materials but must still request a pass or card which also requires some type of formal application.

could somebody please confirm this and/or direct me to the relevant thread?.

Five Gospels

I’ve been reading many of the UN threads with interest but I am already finding it difficult to locate little tidbits of information spread across the numerous threads on this issue that I didn’t bother to bookmark. :|?

I think it’s already well established that the WT Society’s “associative status” with the UN’s DPI was not required to gain access to its library (as my understand is that any person can request permission and may thereafter be granted access on a temporary basis) but I also seem to recall reading that somebody actually contacted the UN’s main library and that person was informed that NGO’s with DPI-associative status do not have automatic access to the library’s materials but must still request a pass or “card” which also requires some type of formal application. Could somebody please confirm this and/or direct me to the relevant thread?

If this is true, then signing-up with the DPI is not even a satisfactory condition (never mind a prerequisite) for gaining access to the UN’s library since one must still go through the same channels as any other person/organization in order to obtain a pass. The Society might be inclined to insist that DPI association somehow facilitates the process of securing a pass but this wouldn’t wash since they must still renew their associative status with the DPI year after year which (as we all know) has its own very specific requirements.

I’m currently an active MS but I have also been quietly and painstakingly collecting “information” for some time now. I appreciate the hard work and research done by many of you on this and other issues. Any assistance regarding my question would also be greatly appreciated.

F G